Question on the Aspect ratio option

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Binary Bob
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Question on the Aspect ratio option

Postby Binary Bob » Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:36 am

If I were to run a game in it's original aspect ratio, that is, unmodified resolution, would the "4:3" option do it? does it actually force 4:3 even if the game uses something else like say 5:4?

Thanks in advance.

Gamecollector
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Re: Question on the Aspect ratio option

Postby Gamecollector » Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:56 pm

You forgot 1 thing - all glide games were developed around 1996-2000. Almost all monitors were 4:3 in this time. So - 640x400 and 1280x1024 modes use non-square pixels and the same 4:3 aspect ratio.
P.S. The only strange game is Fatal Racing/Whiplash. The game itself uses 4:3 but the active area is 16:10. With 2 black bars.
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Binary Bob
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Re: Question on the Aspect ratio option

Postby Binary Bob » Wed Mar 25, 2015 1:38 pm

Hmm, I'm afraid that doesn't answer my question. You could run vanilla Quake3 in full 16:9 if you wanted to (meaning both the internal resolution as well as the display's, as pointless as the later would be for a 4:3 monitor, even when it can be squashed down to proper size on a CRT), but what would nGlide do then?

I suppose the question would be best formulated as follows: what exactly does nGlide do with the output image when 4:3 is selected for a non-4:3 game? does it modify it to be 4:3, e.g. black bars?, is "4:3" just an inadequate name for "don't touch it, use the original aspect ratio regardless of what it may be" (I'm deriving this from the fact that 4:3 was indeed, the most prevalent aspect ratio for that time period, so maybe that's what it means)?

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Zeus
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Re: Question on the Aspect ratio option

Postby Zeus » Wed Mar 25, 2015 1:41 pm

Binary Bob wrote:If I were to run a game in it's original aspect ratio, that is, unmodified resolution, would the "4:3" option do it? does it actually force 4:3 even if the game uses something else like say 5:4?

EDIT:
In this case enabling 4:3 aspect option will do nothing.

Gamecollector wrote:Almost all monitors were 4:3 in this time. So - 640x400 and 1280x1024 modes use non-square pixels and the same 4:3 aspect ratio.

EDIT2:
I'm not so sure about 1280x1024. When you look at Rollcage1 menu it seems to be scaled for 4:3 but the simulation itself doesn't use 4:3 FOV.

Binary Bob
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Re: Question on the Aspect ratio option

Postby Binary Bob » Wed Mar 25, 2015 3:17 pm

Alright, thank you. So it's indeed modified when non-4:3.

Now, here's a problem scenario: say I'm stuck with a display driver that won't handle anything lower than 640x480, thus if I were to run a 640x400 game, nGlide would make it 640x480, and thereby introducing scaling error (say a FPS' hud designed for a 3:2 resolution would then show unevenly thick lines), which would be a minor, yet unnecessary visual penalty when using a CRT monitor wherewith the visible 640x400 image under the 640x480 display mode, may be seamlessly stretched up to 4:3, 5:4 and virtually anything else, depending mostly on the quality and power of the deflection yoke.

Would it be possible to implement an "Use original aspect ratio" option to cover cases such as this?

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Zeus
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Re: Question on the Aspect ratio option

Postby Zeus » Wed Mar 25, 2015 5:03 pm

Binary Bob wrote:So it's indeed modified when non-4:3.

??? What do you mean?

Binary Bob wrote:Now, here's a problem scenario: say I'm stuck with a display driver that won't handle anything lower than 640x480, thus if I were to run a 640x400 game, nGlide would make it 640x480, and thereby introducing scaling error

In this scenario nGlide (default settings) will upscale 640x400 to 1280x800.

Binary Bob
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Re: Question on the Aspect ratio option

Postby Binary Bob » Wed Mar 25, 2015 6:26 pm

Zeus wrote:??? What do you mean?


I figured nGlide will modify the original aspect ratio if it's not 4:3?

Zeus wrote:In this scenario nGlide (default settings) will upscale 640x400 to 1280x800.


That assuming 1280x800 is even available (forget not I'm talking crt's, which I still use). Take any 14 incher; 1280x800 would smoke that thing away in a heartbeat.

The implication here being: it would be useful, at least to one person on this planet, to be able to set both the internal resolution of a game and the display mode independently. E.g. 640x400 for the game, 640x480 for the display mode.

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Zeus
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Re: Question on the Aspect ratio option

Postby Zeus » Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:07 pm

Binary Bob wrote:I figured nGlide will modify the original aspect ratio if it's not 4:3?

It won't. If you set Resolution=By app in configurator you will get what you set in the game i.e:
-if you set 1280x1024 you will get 1280x1024
-if you set 640x400 you will get 640x400 (if available) or 1280x800 (if not available)

Binary Bob wrote:Take any 14 incher; 1280x800 would smoke that thing away in a heartbeat.

Nobody connects latest GeForce/Radeon series to a 15-years old monitors and older GPU series support <640x480 resolutions just fine.

Binary Bob wrote:The implication here being: it would be useful, at least to one person on this planet, to be able to set both the internal resolution of a game and the display mode independently. E.g. 640x400 for the game, 640x480 for the display mode.

Every Glide game can render natively in 4:3 resolution (there are no Glide games that support 5:4 or 16:10 exclusively). So what's the point of setting a non 4:3 resolution if you plan to play it on a 4:3 screen? This doesn't make any sense.

Binary Bob
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Re: Question on the Aspect ratio option

Postby Binary Bob » Thu Mar 26, 2015 4:20 am

Zeus wrote:It won't. If you set Resolution=By app in configurator you will get what you set in the game i.e:
-if you set 1280x1024 you will get 1280x1024
-if you set 640x400 you will get 640x400 (if available) or 1280x800 (if not available)


Thanks, got it now.

Zeus wrote:Nobody connects latest GeForce/Radeon series to a 15-years old monitors and older GPU series support <640x480 resolutions just fine


I'm connecting hardware that's kind of in the middle, not too old, not too new.

Zeus wrote:Every Glide game can render natively in 4:3 resolution (there are no Glide games that support 5:4 or 16:10 exclusively). So what's the point of setting a non 4:3 resolution if you plan to play it on a 4:3 screen? This doesn't make any sense.


That was explained in my third post, but let me rephrase it just to clear it up a lil bit.

In order to properly display an image, you first need to know what the aspect ratio of the image is plus the aspect ratio of the monitor it was designed to be displayed on.

Let's make it, again, a 640x400 image (3:2) designed on a 4:3 CRT monitor and therefore intended to be displayed on 4:3 monitors, which means, the 3:2 image covering the whole 4:3 screen, no black bars (but more visible scanlines instead)

Normally you'd automatically have that 3:2 image stretched to 4:3 on a CRT as the timings on older video cards and the flexibility of CRT monitors allowed for that.

Now, imagine you're using an older 14-inch monitor that looks and performs at it's best when set to 640x480, and the video card itself, being rather modern, won't switch to anything below 640x480, but wait! the game, having a native 3:2 image (non-square pixels) intended to be displayed fullscreen on a 4:3 monitor, would have to be upscaled to 4:3 by nGlide (thus introducing extra lines which can mess up huds, menus and what have you) because 640x480 is the closest match in this scenario. What to do you do then to prevent such a thing? apparently you can't right now, because you would have to have nGlide display a 640x400 image on a 640x480 display mode, so that you can fiddle with the vertical timing controls on the monitor itself and manually stretch the visible image to 4:3, and only then would it be displayed in the proper aspect ratio WITHOUT the error that would have come along with letting nGlide upscale the image, making some lines thicker than others as opposed to what the monitor does, which is, evenly stretch the image, all lines retaining an even thickness.

You see, I'm using an old monitor connected to a relatively modern machine in order to get the a good FPS while retaining the original looks, so the monitor will do about 640x480, but the video card won't handle anything lower than that, so being able to set the game's resolution to 640x400 and the display mode to 640x480, takes care of it all as explained above, because upscaling in software does indeed introduce error, unless you can make the output image big enough so that the extra lines won't distort it. E.g. 320x200 (3:2) being upscaled to 1600x1200 (4:3), Now imagine doing that for 640x400...

Hope that didn't confuse you even further :lol:

Again, I'm like the only person around that does actually benefit from such an unusual setup, so it's that kind of feature that's either very easily implemented or discarded right away, because it simply doesn't have a legitimate use for the developer himself and likely most of the nGlide user base as well.


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